Episode Description:
Elizabeth sits down with Dr. Cindi Baldi, organizational scientist, founder and CEO of Culsure, co-host of the Management Muse podcast, and co-author of The Uncertainty Playbook. Cindi explains why so much of leadership comes down to reducing uncertainty for the people around you, and why owners facing a transition so often freeze instead. She brings the conversation home with her own family’s story. Her mother, now handing the family businesses to Cindi and her sister, let go gradually through a series of small experiments that built her confidence one step at a time. Elizabeth and Cindi also explore how outdated mental models keep owners thinking too small. Later, Cindi reflects on why legacy pulled her back into the family businesses long after she had built a life elsewhere. Tap or click the play button below to listen to Reducing Uncertainty in Business Transitions One Experiment at a Time with Dr. Cindi Baldi.
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What happens when the person holding the keys to a business can’t decide what comes next? Everyone around them starts to hunker down.
In this episode, Elizabeth Ledoux welcomes Dr. Cindi Baldi, founder and CEO of the organizational science firm Culsure. Cindi earned three degrees in management from the McCombs School of Business at the University of Texas at Austin, including her PhD. She co-hosts the Management Muse podcast and co-authored The Uncertainty Playbook with Geoffrey Tumlin. Her research on organizational behavior and group performance has been presented at institutions around the world, including Stanford Business School and INSEAD, and she contributed a chapter to the Oxford Handbook of Organizational Identity. She also creates the science-based culture surveys and leadership assessments that organizations across the country use to understand their people.
Cindi’s perspective on family business comes from the inside. She grew up in an entrepreneurial family whose ventures included a zoo and a drive-in movie theater, and she has gone on to build profitable companies of her own. After years of studying how people and groups behave, she has come to see uncertainty as a force that shapes behavior at every level of an organization. In her view, one of a manager’s most important jobs is clearing out that uncertainty so people have the mental capacity to do their best work. Her dissertation explored the same idea from another angle, showing that new organizations attract people when they communicate clearly who they are, because that clarity reduces uncertainty for anyone deciding whether they belong.
That lens fits business transition closely. Elizabeth describes owners who become paralyzed by the unknowns, from how to monetize the business to who they will be once it no longer defines them. Cindi has lived this from the inside. Her family is in the middle of a transition, with her mother handing the family businesses to Cindi and her sister. For a long time her mother froze. What finally worked was a gradual approach, where her mother gave up pieces of responsibility one at a time to see whether she would feel safe. Today, when Cindi brings her a problem, her mother simply asks what Cindi plans to do about it.
The conversation also turns to the mental models owners carry. Cindi explains that uncertainty sends us back to the patterns we already know, and those patterns are often outdated by definition. She encourages owners to bring in trusted people with no stake in the succession, including voices from outside their industry, to test their assumptions about value and possibility. Elizabeth adds that the same uncertainty often drives capable successors away, because they can’t wait indefinitely to learn whether they’ll be chosen.
Key takeaways from the conversation:
- Culture reduces uncertainty. Shared norms help people know how to succeed, which clears mental noise and frees them to focus on their work.
- Break out of all or nothing. Cindi recommends adding a most likely case to your best and worst case thinking, then keeping your focus on the best and most likely outcomes.
- Run small experiments. Handing over responsibility in smaller bites lets an owner discover they will be okay, and an after-action review after each step helps lock in the wins.
- Expect a nonlinear path. Owners will step forward and pull back as new information arrives, and the process will take longer than anyone wants.
- Update your mental models. Trusted outside perspectives help owners see beyond old assumptions about money and possibility, and the first model that makes sense isn’t always the best one.
Whether you’re an owner working up the courage to start or a successor waiting for clarity, Cindi’s research and her own family’s story show how small steps can turn a frozen situation into forward motion.
Chapters in this Episode:
00:00 – Welcome and introducing Dr. Cindi Baldi
01:18 – Why Cindi chose management and the uncertainty of people
03:50 – Two leaders and one culture during a transition
04:29 – Culture as a way to reduce uncertainty
05:55 – When owners freeze
07:32 – Cindi’s family transition and handing over authority
09:48 – Adding the most likely case
11:28 – Running a natural experiment
12:41 – Moving mom to Florida and watching her blossom
14:37 – Smaller bites and a path that isn’t a straight line
15:26 – A journey not an event
17:03 – Planting seeds as the person coming next
18:45 – When the picture of what’s possible is too small
19:18 – The time warp of old mental models
21:25 – When no successor has been identified yet
22:18 – Testing your models with people you trust
23:47 – Reflection and what the owner wants
24:46 – Why uncertainty sends us back to outdated models
26:14 – Don’t stop at the first model
27:05 – How groups reduce uncertainty to attract people
28:10 – Why strong successors leave
29:11 – Legacy as service
32:03 – Cindi’s one thing: everything takes longer than you think
33:16 – Wrap-up and The Uncertainty Playbook
Connect with Dr. Cindi Baldi:
Website: https://www.cindibaldi.com
Culsure: https://culsure.com
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/cindibaldi/
Management Muse podcast: https://www.managementmuse.com
The Uncertainty Playbook: https://managementmuse.com/product/the-uncertainty-playbook/
Connect with Elizabeth Ledoux and the Transition Strategists:
Website: https://transitionstrategists.com/
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/thetransitionstrategists
Elizabeth on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/elizabethledoux/
Transition Strategists on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/transitionstrategists/
Transition Strategists on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@transitionstrategists
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Reducing Uncertainty in Business Transitions One Experiment at a Time with Dr. Cindi Baldi Transcript
Elizabeth Ledoux: Hi, everyone, and welcome back to the Business Transition Roadmap. I’m Elizabeth Ledoux, and I am your host today. And I am joined today by Dr. Cindy Baldi. She’s the founder and the CEO of a company called Culture. She’s also the co-host of the Management Muse podcast and a co-author of a book called The Uncertainty Playbook.
She’s PhD trained as an organizational scientist. And she’s really interesting. I just had one of the greatest pre-conversations with her because she helps leaders and teams perform better using data-driven insights on culture, communication, and behavior. And those are all pieces that sit in with our leaders, right? Our transitioners, our owner founders, and also our incoming successors.
th those are all things that play a big role in how well a business transition or asset transition goes. So Cindy, thank you so much for being here today with us. I’m just thrilled to have you and I think we’re gonna have a great conversation.
Dr. Cindi Baldi: Thanks for having me. I’m I’m thrilled to be here.
Elizabeth Ledoux: That’s great. So, Cindy, why don’t we start by you telling us a little bit about you? And I always like understanding and knowing more about the why. You know, what’s your passion around this concept and this topic of uncertainty and leadership?
Dr. Cindi Baldi: So I, you know, it’s funny, people sometimes change a lot of degrees. Like, you know, I’ve I’ve worked in universities, they’ll they’ll jump from degree to degree trying to figure out where they fit. I always knew it was management. I I jumped schools, like I jumped universities, but I never jumped actual like disciplines. It’s been management straight through.
there was a moment where I was a little bit romanced by finance, but ultimately I decided that like I just really enjoy the uncertainty of people, actually, to a large degree. I think you know, the social science is about having a better idea of predicting how people in groups might behave. But of course, like it’s not destiny. It’s just a prediction.
And and seeing how people actually materialize and and sort of being like on the fly, figuring out how to adapt to that. And also just like the like massive creativity of people. Like I just I just find all of that very interesting. And and so that’s what drew me over to management in general and working with
leadership teams and to understand their people and their systems. And and I also feel like fundamentally we spend at least eight hours a day at work. And we see the people at work more than we see like our most significant relationships.
and it would be nice if that didn’t like feel terrible. You know, it’d be it’d be nice if it was actually a positive experience. And
It not every job is you know, a a a a circus or you know, not every job is, you know, like entertainment, but you know, I feel like if the environment is good and you feel like what you’re doing matters to some degree, you know, in some way, then work doesn’t have to have that negative connotation. And and so that’s
Where my interest is is in trying to help organizations have better relationships with their employees and vice versa. And so people can have a better day.
Elizabeth Ledoux: That’s wonderful. I could see how that could easily fit in and and move into the concept of you know a business transition because you’ve got you basically have two potential leaders, a transitioner who’s leading and trying to get out, a successor who’s trying to get in and lead, and then still taking care of with that, you know, with that transition happening, that exchange of roles.
trying to keep that culture and keep people feeling like theyre appreciated and they’re making a difference and that the culture in the business stays.
Dr. Cindi Baldi: You know, it’s it’s funny because as you know, I’ve grown academically and in in experience with multiple businesses, what I’ve come to realize is that uncertainty basically plays a role in everybody’s behavior at every level of an organization, probably in in in every aspect of your life, but certainly organizations. And we tend to think about like even cultural values, which
If we’re gonna define cultural values, let’s say it’s it’s the norms and the expectations for how people should behave in an organization. It’s collective, those beliefs. And and we we tend to think of that either as like kumbaya, which it’s not, if you’re a little more into management, you you understand that it’s actually a coordination and efficiency. But from an uncertainty standpoint, really what you’re doing.
Is reducing everybody’s uncertainty. So that way people can figure out, this is how I need to be able to behave in order to be successful. Okay, check. I got that. And and that reducing of uncertainty clears out a lot of noise in people’s heads. And so I I think one of the fundamental jobs for managers is actually doing just that. Like how how do you clear out uncertainty for your employees so that way they can show up and have the mental capacity to put forth their best work?
Elizabeth Ledoux: Yep. That’s great. And you know, one of the things that people run into, I think, in the transitions that they have in these business or asset transitions is
The uncertainty of their future. and I wanted to kind of dig into the area of the uncertainty of even getting started and what some of that motivation could be as a transitioner, but also the idea of the successor, you know, coming in. There is so much uncertainty that happens. And and I’ve found so many owners.
They get literally, I think, paralyzed, not knowing, not really understanding how it could happen, a transition, how they could basically monetize their asset, pull the money out that they need to live their next adventure or retire, whatever that might be, who might be able to, willing.
qualified all the other pieces to come in and actually take the business forward, what their purpose might be after they are no longer identified with the business and just what that might look like. And so I’ve seen, you know, owners get somewhat paralyzed because they just won’t they won’t create the future and reduce that uncertainty for their successor. So their successor, there’s too much for the successor to
Say yes to too much uncertainty available.
Dr. Cindi Baldi: And and not enough authority. So like I can go back to so my family has family businesses and we are in the middle of a transition. And my mom has handed over the reins to myself, mostly on the business side, and then my sister, who is mostly on the medical personal side. And that was really hard for my mom to do.
And and it was sh and she was getting paralyzed. So I’ve actually just in recent years dealt with this whole phenomenon where it was just like overwhelming. So she just froze and did nothing. And then, you know, unfortunately, we had to basically be in a crisis in order for her to to take the chance. And and you know, you’d like to avoid that. and so
There were a lot of dynamics for why we got there, but that’s what we had to do And then it wasn’t like we just took over. It was like my mom had to have time and run like an experiment that if she wasn’t in charge, would she be okay? and over the you know, last few years, we basically have
handled everything. And you know, and it it it grew. Like she didn’t, again, she didn’t relinquish everything. She started relinquishing some things. It was like an experiment to see how it would feel. And I knew that that was happening. I like I knew that we were experimenting. I knew that she needed to basically have the experience to know that she would be safe with my sister and myself at the helm and then could expand from there. And now
When something happens, we still keep her informed of everything because we want to be respectful of the fact that it’s actually all hers. And but now when we tell her about this stuff, she goes, Yeah, that’s a problem. What are you gonna do? Right. Now and
Elizabeth Ledoux: Ha ha
Dr. Cindi Baldi: now she’s like completely comfortable with handing it off. And so I think there are some lessons in there. You know, the first is it’s overwhelming when it’s all or nothing. And we we tend
Elizabeth Ledoux: Sure.
Dr. Cindi Baldi: to get into that.
That mindset, like especially in uncertainty, we tend to think best case, worst case, and probably need to add in most likely case. And and then we tend to focus on worst case. And even though we’ve considered best case, because we’re so worried about our safety, we we tend to focus on.
worst case scenario. And we know, like we know from like research and negotiations, like people who focus on like the worst case outcome for a negotiation,
well, they get the bare minimum deal. The people who were able to push themselves and to focus on the best case scenario.
they tend to actually get better deals. Like they get more value out of their negotiations. Because it if you’re not focused on the the best possible scenario, then you cut off a ton of opportunities. And so I I think you gotta you gotta start with just even just at like breaking out of the dichotomy of best case, worst case, and then add in that most likely case and make sure you’re like okay with that. And then
you’re striving for, you’re actively trying to think through, okay, this is the information coming in. How does that work with my best case scenario? and
Elizabeth Ledoux: Yeah.
Dr. Cindi Baldi: you know, your negative case scenario, like
you’re just gonna get more information.
Elizabeth Ledoux: Kind of out of mind.
Dr. Cindi Baldi: You’re gonna deal with it as you go. Yeah. It’s it’s the best case and then the most likely case somewhere in between there that you wanna you wanna focus on, or else you’re probably not gonna
Elizabeth Ledoux: Yeah.
Dr. Cindi Baldi: move as far. And then what my mom did was basically she ran a natural experiment. She didn’t know she was doing it. I kind of knew she was doing it. I was like, okay, well, let’s get her comfortable here.
And see how she does. And you know, it wasn’t a straight line. Like, people aren’t straight lines. You have to expect that whoever’s in in charge of the organization in the in a transition, like they’re gonna say that they wanna do something, and then they may dip their toe in the water a little bit, and then they may pull out their toe a little bit because they may get a little scared, or new information may come in. And then you sort of go, Okay, that’s new information. How do we continue the experiment? Does this experiment need to change a little bit?
And then after you run the experiment, it’s been successful. It’s it’s having or and or even not successful, it’s it’s having the after action review to solidify either how do we change moving forward or solidify the wins. And in my mom’s
Elizabeth Ledoux: Sure.
Dr. Cindi Baldi: case, it was solidifying the winds. It was, okay, so how do you feel not having this responsibility on you? You know, like.
Are are are you comfortable with what we’re doing? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And and
Elizabeth Ledoux: Like great or not. Yeah. Yeah.
Dr. Cindi Baldi: if you’re not okay with it, so like she right now is, you know, my mom, who knew she’s gonna be the topic of this podcast. But I mean, it is the big transition in my life.
Elizabeth Ledoux: Yeah.
Dr. Cindi Baldi: you know, she’s clearing out her house right now. She’s getting ready to sell it. Cause at eighty-seven years old, we ran an experiment and we said, Mom, it’s cold up in New Hampshire and there’s ice, and that’s not a great place for you to be by yourself.
And so, and you know, we have cameras around our house just so we had we knew every day that she was moving and up and you know I could check in
on her. Yeah.
Elizabeth Ledoux: She was okay. Yeah.
Dr. Cindi Baldi: And we’re like, it’d be much better if like you were around people. And so we moved her to independent living in Florida next to my sister. And she was very scared about it. And we were also kind of nervous. It was like sending our kid to summer camp. Like, is she gonna make friends? And
Elizabeth Ledoux: Yeah.
Dr. Cindi Baldi: And so she and we told her, we’re like, we’re keeping the house. If you want to come back to the house, if this doesn’t work out, like you can come out of it. And and so she went and she blossomed. And like I would cook it’s it was amazing. I would call my mom
Elizabeth Ledoux: Isn’t that great? That’s so great.
Dr. Cindi Baldi: and she’d be too busy exercising or socializing to talk to me. Which
Elizabeth Ledoux: Yeah.
Dr. Cindi Baldi: that’s a huge win. And so anyway, she’s back at home now, clearing the place out.
And and trying to get it on the market for sale. And I like she’s got her toe dipped back in, right? And this change moving forward. And I’m like, you know, mom, I could make this very fast if you wanted me to. And she’s like, no, no, no, no, and like wants to go through everything. It’s like her saying goodbye.
Elizabeth Ledoux: Just slow is good.
Dr. Cindi Baldi: Yeah. And so, you know, it’s this, it’s this forward, it’s like she knows she wants to be in Florida. She articulates that every phone call. She wants to get this transition done out of her out of the house, this piece of it. But
She’ll pull herself back. And and so that’s the point, is
Elizabeth Ledoux: Yeah, on her pace.
Dr. Cindi Baldi: right, and and sometimes she’s ahead of herself and then she has to pull back. And so
Elizabeth Ledoux: Sure.
Dr. Cindi Baldi: it’s having that expectation that in transitions that not only are they gonna take you longer than you think because you don’t have all the information and that’s what uncertainty kicks off, but also that in dealing with the uncertainty, you can really you’re probably gonna be more successful moving people forward.
in smaller bites. And then in doing that, you recognize it’s going to be a lot slower than you want. And you also recognize that it’s not going to be a straight line. That they’ll go they’ll move
Elizabeth Ledoux: Yeah.
Dr. Cindi Baldi: a little bit further, then they’ll come back, move a little bit further, like it maybe pivot a little bit and then move a little further. And it’s like a it’s like a dance that you’re doing over a
Elizabeth Ledoux: Mm.
Dr. Cindi Baldi: very long period of time.
Elizabeth Ledoux: Yeah. Yeah, and that’s I mean, that goes back, Cindy, to just my my history and my knowledge that I believe that the best transitions are a journey, not an event, right? And we don’t want to walk off the cliff and all of a sudden, you know, they’ve lost and you’re trying to figure it out as a successor. and I think as you walk forward, if you do have, you know,
The time to run the experiments, to shift what you’re thinking, to shift maybe even a little bit of your direction as you’re going. I think it it creates certainty along the way. So trying to go back to that idea, but I also, you know, going back to kind of that one concept to dig into, I think in order to reduce uncertainty, you actually need to have some kind of an idea. You have to start somewhere.
instead
of sit kind of in fear or sit in isolation because like you said, your mother was frozen. I think that frozen place is very difficult not only for the person who’s trying to make a decision and they’re just not doing it, but I think it’s very hard on the people who are trying to help that person, you know, do something with if it’s an active business.
There is gonna be a day when they’re not there. So how long do they put off maybe having conversations and designing a strategy forward which has experiments in it to navigate?
Dr. Cindi Baldi: It
I think that’s exactly right. And for the person who’s underneath, when you see the person above you frozen, like you hunker down into oftentimes like the worst fear, but but but your mind kind of closes off.
And I think the job of the person who is coming next is to open open up the possibilities and just even start the conversations. And you have to, it’s like planting seeds. You you have to plant the seeds and then let them grow a little bit and and see where it goes. And you know, you may not get exactly what you want out of the situation. It may not be exactly as you laid it out, but you’re the planting the seeds is.
That first step and trying to figure out, okay, which direction are we moving in? What is that vision that we think that we’re moving toward? So that way we can even start to have efficient experiments to get there. And so, you know, I told
Elizabeth Ledoux: Yeah.
Dr. Cindi Baldi: I I mentioned the personal side with my mom, but like there’s a whole business side with my mom too, because I we’re taking over her businesses. And
Elizabeth Ledoux: Yeah.
Dr. Cindi Baldi: and and so, you know, for us.
And we don’t have like approvals yet. So I’m reluctant to say what we’re trying to do with the property. But for us, yeah,
Elizabeth Ledoux: That’s fine.
Dr. Cindi Baldi: it’s just because we were told
Elizabeth Ledoux: Yeah.
Dr. Cindi Baldi: we were told that you don’t want to make it look like you don’t want the people who will give grant you the approvals to make it look like you’re doing a campaign to force them into a position. So we’re we’re trying to not ex you know, express until we have approvals what we’re planning on doing. but
Elizabeth Ledoux: Sure.
Dr. Cindi Baldi: But that you know, that started with conversations where like in this case, my mother’s whole conception of what was even possible was too small.
Elizabeth Ledoux: Mm-hmm.
Dr. Cindi Baldi: And and that also was part of the dance of her experimenting with handing over control is that are we able to handle more like it than how than what she ever expected. So it like
there
Elizabeth Ledoux: Yeah.
Dr. Cindi Baldi: it’s it’s interesting because this is an age thing, I think. And my husband and I often talk about this even on like tipping, right?
Like you get time warped. We we actually really saw it with his dad who had Alzheimer’s, is that as he was losing his short-term memory, his his whole I concept of money shifted to like the nineteen sixties.
And so like we’re sitting around a table having a conversation about giving gifts to my niece and nephew. And I said, Well, I’m just gonna give them, you know, some money. And I say, How much? And my my father-in-law goes, What? That’s way too much. And it’s it’s not too much. It’s like, yeah, it’s it it’s that it’s it’s being stuck.
Elizabeth Ledoux: It’s not too much, it’s just old yeah, it’s that past thinking. Yeah, that time warp.
Dr. Cindi Baldi: Yeah, exactly. And even though my mom is like completely cognitively there.
you you have to actively update. And and so to her, you know, a hundred dollars is still big money, you know, and and
Elizabeth Ledoux: yeah.
Dr. Cindi Baldi: and so like part of like planning out the future, you know, she’s like, well we could never do that. And it’s like, yes, we could. Like you have to stop looking
Elizabeth Ledoux: Yeah.
Dr. Cindi Baldi: at it as an individual a lump sum of money. And you have to look at this is the project.
And this is what the project would then make the property worth. And this is what we think these are the streams of income. And this is what we think those streams of income would bring in. And now when you look at what we have to lay out in order to get there, well, percentage-wise, it’s not crazy. It’s not actually even remotely crazy.
Elizabeth Ledoux: It’s all good. Right.
Dr. Cindi Baldi: but but you have like you have to break the old mentality of just.
everything they’ve known for so long to see and and I think that’s the job of the person who’s coming next because presumably the person coming next is younger. I mean it it would be a little bit rare for it to be the equivalent age.
Elizabeth Ledoux: Yeah. When they can see it
well, I den I ideally they’re younger, but a lot of people that are listening to this and and that come through and start to create their roadmap forward, a lot of them don’t have anybody identified yet. They haven’t figured out if they’re gonna sell to a private equity, if they’re gonna sell to maybe a competitor, if they’re going to, you know, merge the business in with maybe somebody who
might be a synergistic type of business if they’re going to actually have a son or a daughter, right? Or even a partner take it over from them. So a lot of people haven’t figured out who’s next. And so they don’t have that person to plant the seeds. They almost have to look like say, hey, how am I going to get myself started in this uncertainty?
Dr. Cindi Baldi: And I I think for those people, you have to you have to break out of your mental limitations in terms of money. Like all of us have mental limitations in terms of money. Like you grow up with this concept of what something costs. And and like, you know, just thinking about going through COVID and like the inflation that hit, like it’s jarring to people like to be at the grocery store. And I know we we’ve hit some more.
recently, but like you s like you saw people have like it being in their face and having to readjust and how difficult it was for people to do it. And so I think for the person who is thinking about the succession and trying to identify who that is, it it probably starts with a lot of conversations with people you trust but you know aren’t going to be the source of the secession, just so that way there’s no vested
Elizabeth Ledoux: Mm. Well,
Dr. Cindi Baldi: interest.
so you could start having other people sort of test your mental models in terms of what what this thing is worth, where it where it could go, what the capabilities of the people, because you know, you like somebody and especially if they if they happen to be a family, that’s especially sticky. If you like them in their
Elizabeth Ledoux: Mm-hmm.
Dr. Cindi Baldi: family, you know, are they really the best person to take over?
‘Cause you’re probably
Elizabeth Ledoux: Yeah.
Dr. Cindi Baldi: gonna not gonna be really well equipped to see them objectively. And so
Elizabeth Ledoux: Well and
even yeah, and even understanding yeah, I agree with you that that you may not be able to see them objectively. but also I think as much as how much is it worth and how much could you get and all of that, considering too what doing some reflection and understanding I think a lot of the uncertainty is sitting in how
what the actual owner founder wants and what life could be after. And then going back to your, you know, the prior conversation that we just had is not maybe thinking big enough or that it’s even possible because the uncertainty’s so large there that it’s like, you know, I could never do that or that could never happen. And and not owning that. Yeah.
Dr. Cindi Baldi: and mentally we’re likely with uncertainty to go back to the models that we know, which is one of the reasons why people have a tendency to like have old models when theyre making decisions like this. because like you you think about how we do decision making, we we oftentimes turn first to our experiences in the past and they’re informing what we’re doing today.
And and you do have to be really careful with that and uncertainty because with uncertainty, it basically definitely means that those models are going to be outdated to some degree. Like other if otherwise it wouldn’t be uncertain. And so you have to start to bring in other people who may have different models, who may have more updated models, who may be outside of your industry. And so they may have similar problems but tackle it differently.
And so you start ha bringing in people who might be able to see the possibilities of where you’re standing from a different perspective. And
Elizabeth Ledoux: Which
helps then which helps then you learn because you’re exposed to other bigger things, right? New things, other bigger things. And so it helps you learn and have a I guess a a model or an imprint of maybe
Dr. Cindi Baldi: Yeah.
Elizabeth Ledoux: a different direction that you hadn’t considered.
Dr. Cindi Baldi: Absolutely. And and we have to be careful too that when you find a like the first model that has some common sense to it, that you don’t immediately take it. Because
Elizabeth Ledoux: Yeah.
Dr. Cindi Baldi: because that’s what that’s gonna be how we’re geared. Okay, I found a model, it’s worked here. Like all of a sudden, that model has a lot more power and appeal just because you can get rid of the you feel like you can get rid of the uncertainty. And so you have to like
Elizabeth Ledoux: Mm-hmm.
Dr. Cindi Baldi: have to keep asking because
You want to choose based on the information you have, you want to choose the best model, which may not be the first model, but if you stop at the first model, you’ll never know. Right.
Elizabeth Ledoux: Then you’re done. Well an uncertainty
I think by definition is uncomfortable.
Dr. Cindi Baldi: Uh-huh, yeah. Yeah, you don’t know what’s gonna happen. And that’s like fundamentally,
Elizabeth Ledoux: Yeah.
Dr. Cindi Baldi: this is what we want. Like it so my dissertation was on how new organizations attract employees through their communication. And really what I was testing was like basically like wearing your identity on your sleeve, but
Underlying that was the organizations that gave people a better sense of who they were and if they would fit, wound up getting the people. Because we make decisions all the time about joining organizations and groups basically because we feel like I would fit there, I don’t have to change a lot, I’d be supported for who I am.
They can clear up uncertainty that I have like you, the power of a group is if you can actually provide to the people who are interested in joining it or are currently in it, if you can make them feel like their uncertainty is reduced in the global sense, they’re much more likely to stay with you.
Elizabeth Ledoux: Yeah, and isn’t that great?
Dr. Cindi Baldi: Mm.
Elizabeth Ledoux: because that it’s not only for employees, but one of the things that I see pretty often is a terrific employee successor or son or daughter, right? Niece, nephew, whatever. but they’re actually very good at what they do. They see the bigger picture, right, and what could be. And
That they end up leaving and not staying with the transitioner, owner, founder, right? The one who’s considering leaving, because there is so much uncertainty between them that the potential successor doesn’t know when, doesn’t know how, doesn’t know how much, doesn’t know anything, doesn’t even know if they’re the one that could be selected. And so they get with that uncertainty, they end up
finding their own adventure where they can have some, I’ll say, mm control their destiny a little bit, but at at least go and see if they can grab their destiny versus wait.
Dr. Cindi Baldi: Elizabeth, you just described my family. So you know, like,
Elizabeth Ledoux: Ha ha ha
Dr. Cindi Baldi: like I went on, like I looked at the situation up there, businesses that I love, and I was like, there’s not enough room for all of us here. Who knows? Like, you know, you don’t wanna you don’t wanna wait around for people, like
Elizabeth Ledoux: Mm-mm.
Dr. Cindi Baldi: you don’t wanna push people out of the the thing that they’ve built and nurtured all like the these are also important businesses to both my mom and my dad.
my dad has passed away now, but you know, like they were important to them. And so, like, you know, I all basically all my siblings were like, okay, we’re gonna have to find a life elsewhere and do something that we love. And so we did. And
Elizabeth Ledoux: Yeah.
Dr. Cindi Baldi: part of part of this, like, this is almost like service, even going back. Like this is it takes up a a lot of time, but that is not like that’s not my life.
Like I’m doing this to help my mom and then help my siblings and basically be able to transition my family. Like, because this, I consider this a legacy. Like this basically comes from my great-grandparents. You know, it’s come through the generations,
Elizabeth Ledoux: Yeah.
Dr. Cindi Baldi: what they built. And it will go through me and it will go to my nephew, my my blood nephew. And and so, you know, it it because this piece of my state.
Is my family’s, and so it will stay in my family, and my husband’s piece that is his family will stay in his family. And and
Elizabeth Ledoux: Mm-hmm.
Dr. Cindi Baldi: so, you know, this is legacy. That’s the reason why I’m partially killing myself to run multiple businesses that you know, in order to make it work.
Elizabeth Ledoux: To figure and it
yeah, and they get imploded into your life, right? But it isn’t
Dr. Cindi Baldi: Mm-hmm.
Elizabeth Ledoux: it wasn’t your life, but you know, if you back up always, there could have been some interest in that a long time ago, but just no conversation about how that might work. And even potentially, yeah, no decision making,
And I’m sure that you’re happy and your sister’s happy and you’ve got great lives and and all of that. But to go back in and hop into businesses like that is it it isn’t it’s a it is like a service because of the legacy and not really part of your passion because that passion had to move on.
Dr. Cindi Baldi: It’s my heart.
Elizabeth Ledoux: Yeah, yeah. Yeah, it’s your heart.
Dr. Cindi Baldi: But not
in and my current business also has my heart too. But that’s more, that is more a creation of me.
Elizabeth Ledoux: Which is really cool. Well, Cindy,
Dr. Cindi Baldi: Thank you.
Elizabeth Ledoux: our time goes always so fast for me. I probably say this in every single podcast because I
Dr. Cindi Baldi: Ha ha
Elizabeth Ledoux: just love these conversations. And this has been just terrific. so one, I always, you know, appreciate all of your time and being here. So thank you for that. And I like to ask
with our audience of transitioners and successors, what would be the one thing you would leave with them?
Dr. Cindi Baldi: So I I said this to my husband when we first started our businesses. Everything always takes longer than you think. And the name of the game is staying around long enough for the people who are interested in what you’re doing to not only find you, but then be in a position to need you. And that means that you need to not be tilting the credit cards and going in with a bang.
You need to be very, in my opinion, very conservative so that way you have some runway in order to run. That that’s that’s
Elizabeth Ledoux: Nice.
Dr. Cindi Baldi: my advice.
Elizabeth Ledoux: Nice. Well, thank you for that. And again, thank you for being here. Appreciate all of your knowledge and experience and you sharing that with us today.
Dr. Cindi Baldi: Thank you. Thanks for having me.
Elizabeth Ledoux: You’re welcome. And again
Dr. Cindy Baldi, the author, co-author of the Uncertainty Playbook. That book has 14 practical strategies for navigating uncertainty so that you can have be more effective in your life and also in your work. I think that’s super important for people to be able to know that and to be able to do that. So anyway, that’ll be in our show notes and also some information about her podcast that she enjoys doing.
Dr. Cindi Baldi: Thank you. Thanks for having me.
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The Business Transition Roadmap with Elizabeth Ledoux
How do communities thrive? When businesses experience healthy growth and transition. Join CEO of The Transition Strategists, Elizabeth Ledoux as she and her guests identify what makes a successful business transition roadmap. If you know you want to transition or exit your business “one day”, today is the right day to start planning. This show will give you the roadmap.
If you’ve enjoyed this podcast, you can check out other episodes here: Podcasts – The Transition Strategists
